{"id":10640,"date":"2024-03-10T18:15:46","date_gmt":"2024-03-10T18:15:46","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/?p=10640"},"modified":"2026-03-05T00:02:21","modified_gmt":"2026-03-05T00:02:21","slug":"playing-with-shadowheart-in-bg3","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/playing-with-shadowheart-in-bg3\/","title":{"rendered":"Playing with Shadowheart in BG3"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>I am traveling with Shadowheart and am curious about the best build to use for her. I&#8217;ve had a look at a couple of optimisers\u2019 takes on Shadowheart. In this little note, I look at the newcomers and then review an older perspective which comes primarily from Treantmonk. I look at those who comment on her low probability to hit score and propose a rule for building Shadowheart as a trickery domain cleric as she was written. This requires two or three &nbsp;mods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">The Optimisers<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>Colby of D4 Networks presents a typically clever build. He <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=YOgipqWEUV0\">suggests<\/a> taking a wizard level at level 4 to obtain <em>chromatic orb<\/em> and some more cantrips<a href=\"#f1\">[1]<\/a>. He then takes another 3 levels of cleric. This build is thus not well optimised for obtaining <a href=\"https:\/\/baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com\/Feats\">feats<\/a>, [or <a href=\"https:\/\/baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com\/Feats\">at feats atFextralife\u2019s wiki<\/a>]. He recommends when you get to the opportunity to change her class, to change it to Tempest domain cleric and to use call lightning<a href=\"#f2\"><strong>[2]<\/strong><\/a> as the centre of your aggression. He&#8217;s quite relaxed after level 7 suggesting some more levels of wizard, at least one to get the wizard subclass, and also suggests shifting to sorcerer to get the meta-magic abilities. This is all at the cost of the higher level clerical spells.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Fextralife makes a <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/f2shs49DRhQ\">Shadowheart build of C3\/Ro9<\/a> and looks to cause damage using \u201csneak attack\u201d. This isn\u2019t what I want, either thematically or mechanically, by switching out so early, the build loses <em>Spirit Guardians<\/em> and I suspect changing to Paladin would make a more powerful damage dealer although at the expense of unfeasible ability scores. Fextralife\u2019s build uses ranged weapons; I am of the view that sneak attack is much less effective than <a href=\"https:\/\/roll20.net\/compendium\/dnd5e\/Spirit%20Guardians#content\"><em>spirit guardians<\/em><\/a>. Not for me!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Jolmes <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/5pzrHFJlNfk\">offers<\/a> an interesting take on respecking Shadowheart although the article is entitled \u201chow to make Shadowheart hit\u201d. He proposes to leave her as \u00bd elf, high elf which gets the cantrip <em>sacred<\/em> <em>flame<\/em>. Initially my problem with Jolmes\u2019 approach is he&#8217;s enhancing her ability to hit i.e. making her a melee fighter.<a href=\"#_ftn3\" id=\"_ftnref3\">[3]<\/a> He also recommends respecing her as a <em>light<\/em> cleric which gives her fire spells; the consequent duplication of sacred flame is the reason he&#8217;s unhappy with the high elf selection. On reflection, I may have underestimated the need for a high to hit bonus for unarmed strike which is useful in order to effectively use the touch invoked damage spells.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cephapocolypse <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/GtljSKjZm-A\">illustrates<\/a> a Tempest Cleric build. He argues for enhanced strength with high CON &amp; WISdom. He also argues that the trickery domain is weak because most of their domain spells are in fact divine spells and it\u2019s better to expand the choice you have by either earning unique or other class spells. I suggest that at earlier levels the constraint is the number of spell slots and not the list you can choose from.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>These four authors, three of whom<a href=\"#_ftn4\" id=\"_ftnref4\">[4]<\/a> &nbsp;have a body of work which I respect, are all <a href=\"https:\/\/baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com\/Trickery+Domain\">dissing the trickery domain<\/a> and stanning <a href=\"https:\/\/baldursgate3.wiki.fextralife.com\/Tempest+Domain\">the Tempest domain<\/a>, either that or light or life domain.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I also like, ItalianSpartacus who did <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/wombJWjo63I\">a clerical build video<\/a> which is quite straight forward, and he talks about level 12 which gets you one 6<sup>th<\/sup> level spell. While more balanced than some of the other authors on the topic of subclasses, he again prefers other domains and fails to talk about the melee attack based spells.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">New Old School i.e. Treantmonk<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>This all seems to contradict what to me one of the most knowledgeable<a href=\"#_ftn5\" id=\"_ftnref5\">[5]<\/a> commentators has said. <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@TreantmonksTemple\/featured\">Treantmonk<\/a> argues, before BG 3, that you need to choose if your cleric is a cantrip user or melee fighter. I prefer the former. He argues that a melee cleric is probably more powerful up to 4<sup>th<\/sup> level and a cantrip user more powerful after.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>He also argues to use spiritual weapon and shield guardians as the major forms of attack which leaves the action available for other spells. Ashley Johnson when playing Pike used <em>guiding bolt<\/em>. Laura Bailey used or co- invented Treantmonk\u2019s policy and was also keen on T<em>oll the dead<\/em>. In his Clerical levels video, Treantmonk <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/Ltv8z5zX0uQ\">has Trickery as the top sub-class<\/a> primarily due <a href=\"http:\/\/dnd5e.wikidot.com\/cleric:trickery\">to its domain specific spell list<\/a>. Laura Bailey illustrated the power of <em>invoke duplicity<\/em> albeit at a higher level than available to BG3 players, she used it to multiply the range of mass heal. Her character, Jester, was 18<sup>th<\/sup> or 20<sup>th<\/sup> level, and BG3 has nerfed <em>invoke duplicity<\/em>. i.e. this cannot be replicated in BG3.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Given Treantmonk\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=Ltv8z5zX0uQ&amp;t\">classification<\/a> of the Trickery domain as the most powerful playable subclass behind his two S class subclasses. NB for him S class means game breaking. Why do these later arrivals to 5e, or at least later to my horizon, all diss the Trickery domain? Treantmonk is a big fan of polymorph and dimension door, and I am a big fan of mirror image. Is trickery really the worst, or at least, significantly weaker than life, light, or tempest domains?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Treantmonk has also made <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=OmMKe1DbK-Q\">a video on the best feats for cleric<\/a>, and he considers the top three to be <em>Lucky<\/em>, <em>Resilient Constitution<\/em>, and <em>Warcaster<\/em>. On the way to his top three he considers <em>magic initiate<\/em> but that is in order to obtain <em>booming blade<\/em> and <em>green flame blade<\/em> which are not implemented in Baldurs Gate 3, and neither is <em>Toll the dead.<\/em> One needs <a href=\"https:\/\/www.nexusmods.com\/baldursgate3\/mods\/125\">\u2018all 5E spells\u2019 mod<\/a> and one would need to check that the author has implemented the last of these cantrips. Baldur\u2019s Goonsack says and <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/3J-EjLnDSZA?si=DFA4MadZcim2sZJ2&amp;t=321\">demonstrates<\/a> that the mod does include \u2018Toll the Dead\u2019.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">So what to do<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p>If tuning her to be a melee fighter, or at least ensuring that her touch spells can be effective, even when using dex based weapons, everyone still argues that her wisdom should be prioritised. The cleric however has a couple of spells tightly bound with the attack action, such <em>as Inflict wounds<\/em> and <em>Contagion<\/em>. Maybe the best policy is to maximise wisdom, pump strength and constitution and in the case of Shadowheart, since she is a \u00bd elf, have intelligence at 10. I also don&#8217;t like playing characters with low intelligence. &nbsp;She should be well <a href=\"http:\/\/dnd5e.wikidot.com\/armor\">armoured<\/a> and have a shield to compensate for the mediocre dex and I need to study the <a href=\"http:\/\/dnd5e.wikidot.com\/armor\">strength\/armour nexus<\/a>, BG3\u2019s interpretation is <a href=\"https:\/\/bg3.wiki\/wiki\/Armour\">documented<\/a> on the BG3 wiki. &nbsp;Maybe a feat should be used to enhance the capability of her armour, however she has the ability to use medium armour without augmentation. Maybe <em>tough<\/em> should be used to increase her CONstitution but that doesn\u2019t really leave much room for Treantmonk\u2019s top three feats nor for ASIs.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I took <strong>resilient constitution<\/strong> for the first feat. On my second run through, I may take <strong>spell sniper<\/strong> to get some extra cantrips, especially &#8220;Toll the Dead&#8221;, or <strong>warcaster<\/strong>, to protect the concentration spells. I asked google gemini for advice, and recorded <a href=\"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/playing-with-shadowheart-in-bg3\/#comment-175878\">its reply in a comment<\/a> on this page. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>I returned to the game in 2026, after patch 8 and had to replace the mods installed, and moved my original text posted here to the comments on this page. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<hr class=\"wp-block-separator has-alpha-channel-opacity\"\/>\n\n\n\n<p><a name=\"f1\">[1]<\/a> Why not <em>magic initiate<\/em> feat?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a name=\"f2\">[2]<\/a> The difference between call lightening and spirit guardians is d10 (electric) vs d8 (radiant\/necrotic), although the Tempest domain has a means of using their channel divinity to maximise the damage of their lightening spells. In theory, radiant\/necrotic damage is less likely to be resisted.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a name=\"_ftn3\">[3]<\/a> I have rethought this, Clerics have important touch attack spells, such as <em>inflict wounds<\/em> and <em>contagion<\/em>; even a cantrip user needs to be able to hit. Since as STR goes up, DEX comes down, a Cleric needs good armour.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a name=\"_ftn4\">[4]<\/a> This is the first of Jolmes videos I have seen, so it\u2019s premature to say I admire his body of work.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a name=\"_ftn5\">[5]<\/a> IMO<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I am traveling with Shadowheart and am curious about the best build to use for her. I&#8217;ve had a look at a couple of optimisers\u2019 takes on Shadowheart. In this little note, I look at the newcomers and then review an older perspective which comes primarily from Treantmonk. I look at those who comment on&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":10641,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","_share_on_mastodon":"0"},"categories":[60,1],"tags":[1980,64,921],"class_list":["post-10640","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-games","category-uncategorized","tag-bg3","tag-frpg","tag-games"],"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"","error":""},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Screenshot-2024-02-07-184026.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10640","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10640"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10640\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13998,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10640\/revisions\/13998"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/10641"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10640"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10640"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10640"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}