{"id":4089,"date":"2019-01-01T13:25:42","date_gmt":"2019-01-01T13:25:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/wiki.davelevy.info\/?p=4089"},"modified":"2022-12-30T22:17:08","modified_gmt":"2022-12-30T22:17:08","slug":"more-on-classes-in-dd","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/more-on-classes-in-dd\/","title":{"rendered":"More on classes in D+D"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>For some reason I looked at the video below\/overleaf on Youtube, it&#8217;s about D&amp;D character classes and multi-classing and this is my response. Not sure how useful it is as most of the words relate to rules no longer used. I conclude with the words, &#8220;in summary, if playing in a balanced party, given the current (v5e) broad choice of initial classes, their enhancement via prestige classes, the nature of the XP scale (it\u2019s no longer exponential), power games should stick to pure classes, and real power players will play human wizards.&#8221;<br \/>\n<!--more--><\/p>\n<p><iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"Is D&amp;D 5e Multiclassing Just for Power Gamers\" width=\"1099\" height=\"618\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/LJ3DEpZC5Cw?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>I have played PnP with the 1<sup>st<\/sup> edition rules and on the computer for the 2<sup>nd<\/sup> edition and version 3.5.<\/p>\n<p>Under ADD 1<sup>st<\/sup> edition, demi-humans had permitted multi-class combinations, experience points were allocated to each class and class progressions were allocated for each class. There were limits on the class levels. Humans could dual class, they could switch class but lost the abilities of the original class until their 2<sup>nd<\/sup> class had caught up. The xp\/level tables were exponential which meant that for humans, they basically gave one level away for the 2<sup>nd<\/sup> class. E.g. Fighter\/Thief at 7\/7 required the same XP as an 8<sup>th<\/sup> level fighter although at lower levels it was still quite dangerous, in the case of our 7\/7 fighter thief, as their comrades become 8<sup>th<\/sup> level, they are 7\/1 (effectively 1\/1) and probably useless as the DM will have monsters &amp; traps suitable for 8<sup>th<\/sup> level parties. Unless starting at higher levels, possibly the optimum strategy was to take one level of a class then dual to another in order to get innate class abilities such as <acronym title=\"The character could also use wizard\u2019s scrolls.\">a wizard\u2019s \u201cuse wands &amp; rods\u201d<\/acronym>, or a fighter\u2019s weapon choices for use with a wizard or cleric. It should be noted that the original class choices were quite limited; there were <acronym title=\"Fighter, Thief, Mage &amp; Cleric, these actually had sub-classes of Paladin,Ranger, Monk, Assassin, Illusionist &amp; Druid.\">basically four<\/acronym>\u00a0which is one reason why multi\/dual classing might be seen as attractive. However, the limitations with <acronym title=\"The 1st edition Bard required a dual-classed Fighter\/Thief between levels 7 &amp; 9 to switch to Bard, where they got the Bard\u2019s special abilities, (Charm &amp; Song) and earned druidic spells.\">one exception<\/acronym>, made the option of switching a human early, or using demi-humans the best way to get a flexible character class and we should always remember that a character can only do <acronym title=\"Try playing Aerie in Baldur\u2019s Gate; so much to choose from!\">one thing at a time.<\/acronym><\/p>\n<p>It seems the rules were pretty similar in 2e which I experienced playing Baldur\u2019s Gate (1 &amp; 2). I played a Bard although I believe the Bard song (Luck) was broken and Charm Person not so useful in this story but the Bard\u2019s use magic item allowed the use of the plentiful wands and less plentiful rods. The sub-classes were much more varied and the Paladin and Barbarian had become classes. Classes still had their own xp tables, which while not exponential \u00a0and the distinction between demi-human multi-classing and human dual classing was still in place (see also <a href=\"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/jaheira\/\">my article on Jaheria<\/a>). My experimental instincts were attracted to some of the sub-classes. I looked at the Berserker, which like the Druid had a shape shifter ability at higher levels. Apart from the offering of more classes, these were still pretty focused <acronym title=\"This was now a core class, with its own xp table, which was shorter than most and had mage spells, although it gets \u201cCharm Person\u201d as a first level spell.\">(apart from the new Bard)<\/acronym> and so the strategies remain the same, multi-class a <acronym title=\"I am not sure this was permitted by the rules engine.\">demi-human<\/acronym>\u00a0or switch early via dual classing rules.<\/p>\n<p>Version 3.5 which I played using NWN\/NWN2 made more changes. The most dramatic was that the xp scales belonged to the character and became more linear. The choice of class for the next level was the player&#8217;s and one could thus return to another level of a class which had been interrupted. When one switched class, the next level-up happened at the character\u2019s next progression point, so for each additional class level one takes, one gives away the same number of levels from the original class i.e. a Fighter\/Thief 7\/7 is equivalent to i.e. requires the same XP as a 14<sup>th<\/sup> level character. This is really not good for thieves and other expertise users; abilities like \u201cfind\/remove traps\u201d, Bardic song and even \u201cuse magic items\u201d all test the character\u2019s ability measured by their \u201cfeat\u201d points against the item\u2019s threshold. I ran <a href=\"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/binky-netzen\/\">a fighter\/thief through Shadow of Udrentide<\/a> and got very cross about his inability to deal with traps, although perhaps I should have taken one level of wizard to get the pixie familiar. Another feature of 3,5e is the <a href=\"http:\/\/nwn.wikia.com\/wiki\/Prestige_class\">so-called prestige classes<\/a>. These were sub-classes which various classes could evolve into. Also there were 15 base classes. This choice allowed the selection of much more flexible classes and in many ways reduced the need to dual class although a lot of imagination and effort was spent on designing multi-class combinations and we should note that in NWN1, one only got one companion so creating a balanced party is\/was trickier than it might be unless one created a flexible player character. However, with my much interrupted run thorough NWN2, I indulged my need to <a href=\"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/viking-berserker-bear-warrior\/\">play a Barbarian\/Druid<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>I should also add that having a pure play fighter is a more boring option, there\u2019s only one thing that can be done, \u201cbuff &amp; bash\u201d.<\/p>\n<p>Another point made in the video is that many\/most PnP games do not take levels into the high teens or beyond and so the massive advantages for pure class spell casters do not accrue to the chosen player character; it might be a good idea to take a level or two of something that allows some non-magical self defence if magical self defence is too hard to get. So, perhaps one should see what levels one is really seeking to be best at. In 5e, 1st &amp; 3rd level increment power substantially. A fair amount of thought has gone into combining classes that share the same prime stat., so Paladin\/Warlock\/Sorcerer combos are seen as potentially attractive.<\/p>\n<p>In summary, if playing in a balanced party, given the current (v5e) broad choice of initial classes, their enhancement via prestige classes, the nature of the XP scale (it\u2019s no longer exponential and is attributed to the character not the class), power games should stick to pure classes, and real power players will play human wizards.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>For some reason I looked at the video below\/overleaf on Youtube, it&#8217;s about D&amp;D character classes and multi-classing and this is my response. Not sure how useful it is as most of the words relate to rules no longer used. I conclude with the words, &#8220;in summary, if playing in a balanced party, given the&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":4090,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","_share_on_mastodon":"0"},"categories":[60],"tags":[1255,61,923,694,530,64,921,922,217],"class_list":["post-4089","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-games","tag-5e","tag-add","tag-baldurs-gate","tag-bard","tag-dungeons-dragons","tag-frpg","tag-games","tag-nwn","tag-nwn2"],"share_on_mastodon":{"url":"","error":""},"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-content\/uploads\/2019\/01\/dd-aparty2-w650.png","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4089","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4089"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4089\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4099,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4089\/revisions\/4099"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4090"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4089"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4089"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/davelevy.info\/wiki\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4089"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}